Ep 101 - How to Find a Local Church 101

Welcome, this is the Men Church Stuff Podcast. This is the show where brothers -in -law DJ Culp and Brad Coleman talk about stuff from our perspective as men. It's a show for anyone who wants to hear how Christians interact with the world. And don't worry, we're real. We've grown up in church, and we want to share our experiences with you. We'll talk life stuff, church stuff, man stuff, and stuff stuff. Here we go. Greetings, listeners here and there and everywhere all across the land. This is the Men Church Stuff Podcast. I am one of your hosts, DJ Culp, as always, here with my beloved brother -in -law, Brad Coleman. Brad, happy, what is today, Wednesday? Tuesday. Tuesday. Happy Tuesday. Happy summer day in the middle of the week. It does get a little running together. Yes, it does. Last week, I thought Monday was Saturday, and I kept going, like, am I ready for my sermon? That's right. And I had just, you know, just preached the day. Day before, but yeah. So either, Brad, you were super ready for Sunday sermon, or you completely and utterly forgot it because it's like, oh, wait, no, it's not today. Wait, it's not today. Wait, it's not today. It was actually pretty nerve -wracking a few times because I was like, oh my gosh, what am I preaching tomorrow? Why do I not know this already? Oh, wait, it's because it's Monday. It's Monday. It's Monday. I don't have to preach tomorrow. So listeners, before we get into our topic today, Brad and I wanted to remind you to go check out our website, www.menchurchstuff .com. If you want to be on the show, let us know. There's a contact us page on our homepage as to like you can fill out. You can fill out the little text box to let us know what it is that you can contribute to our show. If you go to the Contact Us page, you can get a hold of us and drop us a line. One of the things we'd love to hear from you guys is even just a hi, I love your show. Let us know why you love the show. If there's anything that you would love to let either of us know, feel free to contact us that way. The pictures have been updated. I will still be adding those in the days to come. But I have written my very first blog in DJ's Thoughts, one of the pages on the website. In DJ's Thoughts, it is called Why a Podcast? And if you can hear hacking in the background, that would be my dog. I feel pressured. Yeah, you do. You should. So hopefully, hopefully, ladies and gentlemen, listeners of the show, boys and girls, hopefully Brad will also contribute on the website. See here, here's here. I've already got my first post. Why a podcast? Question mark. See DJ's post. So, so Brad's going to, you're going to pull the ditto for everything that, for everything that he, what DJ said. I agree with DJ at this link. Listeners, before we dive into our topic, I want to let you guys know that in episode , where we interviewed and had my dad on the show talking about influence and outreach, my dad actually posed. a really good show topic at the end of that show, which was what to look for when looking for a local church. And so we're actually going to extend one more show, the series on the local church, and that'll be this show. It's Finding a Church . Dude! Finding a Church ! I love it. That's the title of the show, Finding a Church . So for show , this will be Finding a Church . And our next show will be back into kind of the randomness of things. Hope that you enjoyed the show . Brad, I had this thought where I might chase the idea of putting... the the chat gpt pinky in the brain me and you on a t -shirt for us that's because that that was really funny um but listeners if there's anything about show that you loved let us know contact us um and uh and let us know what it was that that uh you know that made you laugh that you that you thought was was really funny or really good or anything like that so brad let's uh let's dive into our topic all right so as an opener as the Opening question. I've just got this question, this question for you, Brad. So let's start before we, before we really kind of get into the meat, you know, with me and you as, as like church goers, Brad, as a pastor, what are, what are your thoughts on. Church shopping. Let's just start there. Do you like the idea of church hunting? Do you like the idea of church shopping? What advice do you have to give to anybody that finds themselves in that particular world? I think if we mean by church shopping, like I'm going to different churches seeking. to find the church that God's leading me to, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it really comes to what is the mentality? What am I shopping for is probably the better question. Like, if I'm church shopping, what am I shopping for? Because if I'm shopping for a lot of these things that are really more on the material side of things, then we will spiritualize them. Like, I think one of the big one, you know, smaller churches tend to lose families because, well, we need our kids to have a bigger, more established youth group. And not that there's anything wrong with a bigger, more established youth group. But that's probably shouldn't be your primary reason for going to a church. You know, and I think a lot of those. things just compound to that issue is well why doesn't the other church have that you left have a bigger youth group well because everybody felt like you and they left for a bigger church right you know so uh but i think if you're shopping for oh i you know i like the way this the the decor in this church and i like this and i i just think we got to be careful because we start making church about When church is about us together, worshiping God. Like, really, we come together to worship God. And a big part of the church is how, again, I was telling the other day on Wednesday night, I said, you know, part of my job as pastor is to prepare you as the church to go out and be the church. To share the gospel, to live righteous and holy because he is holy, and live in Christ. So I think a lot of times, even though they're not wrong in and of themselves, we can focus on the wrong things because our checklist is really, this is what I want. I like the music. I like the style of preaching. I like the way the seats feel. I like, you know, the update of the building. I love all the fun stuff that they're doing. I love the programs. And none of those in and of themselves are bad. Yeah. But if our church shopping, for lack of a better word, is focused on filling up my list with those. Right. Well. I think that's problematic because we're focused on us. I think finding a church shouldn't be like finding a gym. You know, when you go find a gym, yeah, you do that. You find the one that's best suited to your needs. But I think the other side of that is kind of coming to church is not just about your needs. It's about where are you needed to serve. Because part of being part of the church should be, I should be serving. I don't think we're called to just come to church. We're called to be the church together. I read, and I'm sorry that I didn't even think about snapping a screenshot of this, but I read... Somebody's post, he was a pastor of a small church. And he was responding to a post on Facebook. And he had a very interesting stance on this. And I want to hear you on this. He said that basically large churches reach people faster. But basically they are better suited for less spiritually mature people. Smaller churches take longer to reach people, but require, but like, yeah, require or, or like demand more of spiritually, more spiritually mature people. And the argument is the, the argument that he kind of made was that all of these programs that you're talking about there, they are certainly, I mean, and like, there's, there's no denying it. There are more quote unquote opportunities to be involved in what, you know, whatever capacity, this or that, there are more opportunities for those, for the, for, for involvement in larger churches, but because there are more people, It is a lot easier to not be invested versus being in a small church where it's the exact opposite. There aren't as many programs, but your level of investment is really kind of required to be higher. Where do you stand on that? I don't know. Statistically, as I understand, when you start looking at percentages, they're pretty close as far as like activity, the amount of people, the amount of percentage of people from the whole. Like a lot of times a youth group will be about % of the whole. like body of the church how many like so if you're would be and that doesn't mean necessarily kids coming all the time but that's there's there's kids connected well just like with church if you say oh we've got people well is that people all together i'm people coming every week probably got more like yeah you know people but but again so But even in, you know, one of the things is just these large groups, they look bigger because, okay, now you've got , people and now you've got a youth group of . But it's still percentage -wise, activity -wise, about the same amount of kids per, you know. per the group now again that i read that a long time ago and i don't know how accurate it is there's there's certainly you know short -term bursts and stuff i i don't think it's some i think we have to be careful that we don't go big church versus small church mentality like small church is the right way big church is bad or big church is the right way small church is bad right um I don't think that's accurate. I think there are tendencies that we have to look out for if we're a big church, you know, being being more superficial, being more, you know, people falling through the cracks. Yeah. Being more sometimes shallower in our teaching so we don't offend. But that's not always the case. I mean, there's some people who've had super solid teaching, super solid, you know, biblical teaching, and they are. Big churches. And the opposite is true, right? There's some small churches that are small because they want to be small. They don't want to let anybody else in. They don't want to let people in. You're exactly right, man. Yeah. You know, there's some churches that are small just because they are, you know, for whatever reason. And I think that, I think something, at least in my life that I have, I have personally experienced is that a bias that I had to get over, which took a very long time to do this, but a bias that I had to get over with small churches is, to your point, small churches, my bias was they want, not only do they want to be small, but Any thought of them giving lip service to, but we want to grow is completely false because they love being small. And if you're not a part of their small, then you're not going to fit in, which is not true. Again, I think it's the human psyche, though, because they do want to grow, but they want to grow by getting people that are exactly like them who aren't going to change. cause any change yeah and and aren't going to cause any drama and i'm going to cause it like i want everything to stay the same and then grow which is unrealistic right right because the more people we put in a scenario the more of those things are are going to happen yeah just because it's relational you're going to have ups and downs i mean shoot Paul and Barnabas had a falling out for a while or, you know, kind of end up going their separate ways. And so the more the more people that you put in a dynamic, the more of those things are going to multiply. Yeah. But so, yeah, I think I go. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say, but let's get back to. Around to the topic of kind of what should we be looking for, I think, or how do we look for a local church? Because we can talk about these other things until Jesus comes back. Right. We probably will be. No, we absolutely will be. Yeah. So for me, and actually in relation to like this guy's Facebook post about, you know, spiritual maturity is demanded in higher amounts with small churches. I think one of the things that people need to look for... I know, I know, I know. I've been in some small churches that were so spiritually immature. Dude, and that's the thing. I do not buy into the... And seriously, I'm going to say it this way. With the exception of the topic of Jesus and Satan, okay? I do not buy into... um that everything is exactly polar opposite you you can always you can always find exceptions to the rule that said um one of the things that i do like and i do think that we can talk about is in fact the spiritual maturity um one of the things that i would encourage people to do when they look for a local church is try to identify as best they can Not how healthy is the church only on, on the out, like on the, on the, on the outside, but how, how spiritually mature is the church? And I think, I think one of the easiest things that, that, that kind of block our view of that. Is exactly what you were talking about, Brad, with like, you know, all like the song in the dance, the dog and pony show, which is not a bad thing, even though even though I say it kind of like in jest or tongue in cheek. But the more goings on that a church has, the more at least it appears that the more healthier it appears. And I'm not I'm not going to say that that's always true. It's I mean, like you can have. You can have tons of stuff. That's not always true. Yeah, right. Because you can have tons of stuff going on. In Revelation, Laodicea, they felt like they were rich. I mean, you could make an argument that they probably felt really solid about their church and their programs and their stuff. And again, because the Bible says that you think you're rich and in need of nothing. But you're poor and you're blind and you're naked. Right. So I think you can get, but again, the size of the church doesn't matter there. Correct. Right. Yeah. I mean, you can be small or big and go down that road. So for me, I think there's a couple important things, questions to ask. One is, again, Proverbs , , and . So I'm seeking to not lean on my own understanding, but I'm seeking God. I'm acknowledging God in the situation for him to direct my path. Because maybe the church I need to go to is immature because I am more spiritually mature. And I need to be part of helping that church to mature up. Establish maturity, yeah. Well said. Now, I think with that, again, we're following God's leading. The other question is, is it biblically solid church? And we're not talking even as much about some of these arguments that we can get, Arminianism versus Calvinism. But are they preaching the Bible? I think we got to be like Bereans in Acts. I'm going to guess Acts . Acts , actually. Acts , sorry. Acts , . The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. And I never knew they went to Kentucky. I know, right. Cher's got a joke where the rest of the world was named from Kentucky. Kentucky is the origin of everything. And when they arrived, they went in the synagogue of the Jews. Now, these were more noble -minded than those in Thessalonica, where they received the word with great eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. Therefore, many of them believed along with a number of prominent Greek women and men. So you go to a church and you need to say, is what is being taught here biblical? Yeah. And the way that you do that is you open your Bible. Well, not only that, but well, I say not only that. I think there are absolute times, Brad, where you can assess that in. I mean, one sermon, maybe two, right? And a lot of times the church, too, is going to, like, if they have a website, this is what we believe. And listen, I've gone on to some sites looking for other stuff, and I've gone, whoa, whoa. That's pretty far out there. So, yeah, you're looking for those red flags. You want to go, though, to a place where you can ask questions. And it's okay. And you're not going to be able, at least in my experience, you're not going to be able to get to that point by researching a church online. And when I say you have to go visit, this is where I think you have to start investing. Not just investigating, but you have to start investing to find out that answer, right? And I do. I think that, yeah, you might be able to assess in one or two, maybe even three visits, like from the pulpit, does said person preach like scripture? Does a person know what the scripture means? Or does it seem like this is really God is speaking through this person? Or are you like taking complete and utter artistic liberty, you know, interpretive liberty and saying, yeah, well, this is really what it meant. I mean, like you might be able to do that in two or three, but I would even argue that at least I'll say in the evangelical tradition in the South and Midwest, how's that? That a lot of the churches, you're not really going to be able to pinpoint whether or not they teach the Bible. unless you start investing and unless you start talking to people and unless you attend Bible studies, like when you start to really kind of dig in beyond the, beyond the surface level, that's when, that's when you kind of begin to realize that stuff. Yeah. If they bring out the snakes, just leave. Yeah. Say bye. I'm out. That's a, that's a pretty, that's a pretty easy one. I mean, again, and there's, and we say that kind of in jazz, but that, that happens like, but it's true. I grew up in eastern Kentucky. There's totally snake handling churches. I've only ever heard of snake handlers. I've never been to a church that does that. Well, I've never been to one, but that's partially because, again, my dad was pretty careful about where he was taking me in. Yeah, right. I remember my dad and them moved, and they were looking for a new church. They got up, and again, I was an adult, so it was just my mom and dad. They got up and left in the middle of a service because something was, I don't remember what it was. It's not important. But my dad was like, it was so not biblical. And so they had people kind of chase them into their car, basically being like, oh, no, don't leave. That's usually a pretty red flag for me, too. Yeah, right. Like, I've already decided to leave. Yeah, but we're going to change your mind. Really. Just drink this Kool -Aid. It will clear up all confusions. But again, I think one of the biggest keys, and I think that it should go without saying, but I really think it doesn't, like the people don't do it as much as we should. And that is prayerfully seeking God on this. Yeah, right. You know, show me this, where I need to go. And then as we're going, listening to the Spirit. And so when the Spirit's directing us somewhere. Now, one of the things that gets me, and I've had this happen, and I always find it interesting, and actually a little, it irks me a little bit. When people will tell me how God revealed to them that they were supposed to be going to this specific church, and then three months later, they're not going to that church anymore. Yeah. And I'm like, I thought that God had showed you that that's where you're supposed to go. Matter of fact, the argument that you gave that that was God was pretty good. Yeah, that was the Spirit telling you. So why aren't you going there now? Yeah. Um, so I, I, I think too, we, we want to jump off like at the first little, I'm agitated. I'm upset. I don't like this. Brad, something I want to bring back that you said, that's in direct relation to what I agree with it. Oh no, you said it, Brad. um you said you know one of the reasons why god may be calling you to a church is because it is in fact immature and you have more spiritual maturity than the church does and i gotta figure out how to how to word this carefully but like i think far too often in those particular situations right where where like I haven't called it church shopping my whole life. I've actually called it church hopping or church hunting. But like when you're church hopping versus church shopping, I think church hopping means that you can't really, you're not settling in. You know, you're not digging your feet in and saying, I feel like God has called me here. And until he does something else, and that's not really an active part of my prayer life of God, is this really where you want me to be? God, is this really where you want me to be like forever and ever and ever? Amen. Unless God does something drastic in your life, I'm here. I think a large part of the spiritual maturity argument is I don't have to be, or I shouldn't have to be spiritually mature. other people, or even maybe just the pastor slash ministry team needs to be more spiritually mature than anybody else. So I don't have to have the same type of accountability spiritually that you do. So if I say God has called me here and then something goes wrong, I have leave to be able to change churches. Yeah. So by the way, if that is your mindset, then you are spiritually immature if you were if you were wandering that is if you were wondering that is part of what spiritual immaturity looks like um yeah uh and again i think on yeah i mean i agree with what i said I am right. I think more of it, too, is, and I've been realizing this more, that I need to tell the church, instead of assume that they know, that that is not what it looks like. Like, I'm not supposed to be the Pope of Murphy. where, you know, I talk to, like, I am your link to God. Correct. Yes. And I am like, you know, like me and him are closer buddies than you and him are. And so if you need a favor, you better come talk to me so I can talk to God about it on your behalf. Yeah. Like, I'm surprised sometimes by the amount of people, I think, that kind of have that mentality. Like, I'm not saying, like, if you've got something going on that, that you shouldn't go to your pastor to ask him to pray for you. Correct. But, but that's, again, like I, yeah, I think that's dangerous. I think when it's looked at like, oh, wow, you, you be, you be the guy that, that does all this. Yes. And then we'll, you know, we'll just kind of show up and unless we decide we don't like you and the way that you're doing those things. That's right. And I would, I like, I know it may sound like I'm kind of convoluting the conversation when I say this, but it is intimately interwoven. I can't even say that. It was a good phrase, but it was like intimately interwoven. Yes. That being a pastor, as you are, it is a special calling. Yes. puts you closer to God than me. Like you are, you are a human as am I. Your profession, you, like you and I have had this conversation on the show before a couple of times that like you, like whether you call yourself a pastor by profession or not is just simply semantics at the point of, at the point of the, like the spiritual level. It is, it like, I think it's very, very possible. very possible and i and i'm not saying it's a good thing but it's very possible that that you listener or me um obviously brad you're in a different category because you are the pastor here but but like if if we attend a church we could very well be more spiritually mature than the pastor i'm not saying again i'm not saying it's a good thing but who's to say that you're not actually going to be the bread of life Right? God's going to use you as the person to reinvigorate the pastor to go, dang, I have been off base. I've had older guys. So when I first got to Murphy, the associate pastor was Paul Faulkner, who was the guy that was old enough to almost be my grandfather. Probably actually old enough to be my grandfather. He was our associate pastor. There were so many times on Wednesday night after a Bible study that he would come up and say, good job, young man. And I was like, Paul, I feel like you should be standing up here and I should be sitting back there. That's right. You know, and so, yeah. Like, am I going to go, oh, yeah, I'm more spiritually mature than this guy who's been walking with Jesus longer than I've been breathing air, who has been devout to him, who has. continuing to seek him yeah no probably not i mean like like paul do you know his nicknames at this point like right You know, so, yeah. So I think it's a, I mean, I think the pastor should be one of the most spiritually mature people in the church. I completely agree with that. Yes. I'm not saying that there should be an abundance of people that are like, oh, yes, everybody in this church is more spiritually mature than the guy whom God has called to lead this congregation. That's right. Well, but I think it is, and I know this is really anecdotal. And my apologies that it is, but it's just, this thought occurs over and over and over in my head, not because I think it, but because I feel like I experience it and see it and live it oftentimes in my own life where the people that attend the church, do not consider their Christianity, their walk with Jesus, almost as important as the one that their pastor has. And that is totally bogus. It's absolutely bogus. There's nothing, there's absolutely nothing that the pastor can do on my behalf concerning salvation. Period. That's all Jesus. No, I can't save anybody. That's right. Trust me. If I could, I'd be like, if it was all about just baptizing people. That's right. I'd find the biggest, meanest looking guy and find a way to dunk him. Yeah. And then he's on my side. Yeah. Look out. We're going to the pool. We're getting all kinds of people saved today. I've heard this before. And it doesn't matter from who, but I've heard this before where a pastor and another and a person, this particular person, were, you know, were. almost like accountability partners that they were that close. And I've heard this person say, you know, and the pastor would say things and I would think, man, you have those thoughts. Aren't you supposed to be close to God? And I'm like, wait, what? Like the human beings are human beings. I'm not Jesus. That's right. I am not Jesus. And so, and, and, and, and, and so I don't want to be a dead horse. Right. But to that end, coming back to the spiritual maturity, this last thing that we'll say when we move on, I think it's vital to consider that spiritually mature people are neither right nor wrong to be attracted to a large or small church. I think that right there is the absolute epitome of the consumeristic mentality of, you know, like... We, we get, we go to a small church and then we graduate and we get to a bigger church. Like I want to go to the church that has all the stuff going on. Okay. Why? Right. And, and, and understand that. And I'll say, I'll say, they'll say this, that I remember my dad telling me so often that the bigger the church, the bigger the problems. But again, it comes down Brad to what you said. How often are we in prayer? Lord, am I where you want me? And is this particular church that I'm currently attending, whether I'm church shopping, whether I'm church hopping, or whether I've been at this church for years, is this actually still where you want me? And if the answer is no, why? You know? Well, and so, and I've beat this before, right? God loves to ask questions. Awesome scripture. And I think part of the reason he does is to make us think. But I think the other part of the reason that he does is so that we learn to ask good questions. So I think when we're looking at church, God, where do you want me? Where do you want me to go to church and be a part of the church? Why am I here? How do you want me to serve? How am I supposed to be a part of the body of Christ? What am I supposed to be learning? You know, who here can disciple me? Who here can I disciple? And just so we're seeking God on those questions. You know, I am. I'm a man just like anybody else. And so how many times have I gone on my own understanding and gotten ahead and gone, oh, this is, I mean, like, this is what God wants me to do. And I do it and it's a disaster or it falls apart. Because, well, I just assumed because A, B, and C were here that, oh, this is obviously what God wants to do. Right. Instead of asking him and then seeking to follow. His spirit. Now, sometimes it is. You do need to go that way, and it is going to fall apart, but God's doing something in the process. Look at the prophets. They were to proclaim the truth, even though a lot of times the people weren't going to listen to them. And God knew that already. Yeah. But I think we've got to look at that in our obedience to God, right? So obedience doesn't look like bigger, better. Right. budgets and programs and all this and and i think that i think at this point at least for me you you mentioned the human psyche i think that there that there needs to be something that that that we bring into the forefront which is should i feel guilty then like if there's a listener that's listening to this That is in that it's sort of in the season of life of I've either recently joined a church or, you know, our church is, you know, I feel like our church is vanilla or in a plateau. And, you know, there's there's another church over here that's experiencing this boom. Or there's a church over there that I know has been kind of falling off and lots of people are leaving. Like, should we feel guilty? If, in fact, we feel that God is leading us to something that other people would claim is bigger and better. And the answer to that question lies in where do we feel like God is calling us? Right, right. If God is leading you. Right. I mean, you don't need to feel guilty about anything. Just do it. You don't need to feel guilty if you stay. That's exactly right. If God is leading you to go. And I want to share this story. I need to send a text to a friend of mine, Garrett and Leah. Shout out to Garrett and Leah. This happened about five or even maybe six years ago. Shara and I, the church that we're attending, there was a very, I'll use the word popular or influential. Influential, it's a very soft Christian word meaning popular, right? But they were, They were popular, well -known, well -loved people in our church. They had a long family history. They'd been there a long time. His dad was employed at the church. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? He was one of these guys. Him and his wife Leah and their kids, they moved to a local town that's right outside of Milan on the way to Jackson. And I will never forget. that one morning in Sunday school, they were Sunday school teachers, his wife Leah had something that she just needed to get off her chest to our Sunday school class. She was in tears, and she said that she and her husband Garrett had been fighting this for a long time. And our church was fine. Our church was not entering a lull, at least not yet, but our church was absolutely totally fine. Because they had such deep roots and because they had such positive experiences, they were actually fighting the push that God had impressed upon their hearts that it was time to leave that church and move their membership just somewhere else. And they were not. wanting to do that whatsoever god we love it here you know like our children our children accepted christ here we're deep we're deeply invested deeply rooted and i mean all of these excellent excellent reasons to stay in any particular church and it had absolutely nothing to do with with the way that the gospel was being presented it had nothing to do and then you can make the checklist of reasons to leave a church nothing it was because god was was impressing upon their hearts, you need to move. And they did. And I will never forget how much respect I began to look at this particular family out of the blue in everyone else's eyes saying that we need to move. But the reasoning is because they, both of them had been in prayer for a long time and had known that God was moving them into this particular stage and they could no longer say no. Yeah. So shout out to Garrett and Leah. Still remember that. Thank you guys. Yeah. So, right. And again, sometimes we have our humanity and then God's will. And sometimes the humanity side is, it's not that it wants bad things all the time that all those things, again, like you said, that was, those were, there were good things, but God's calling us somewhere else. When someone comes to me, OK, as the pastor. And they say, you know, we feel like God's leading us somewhere else. Like I'm going to have that conversation with with them. But I'm like my answer is almost always the same. You go where God's leading you. Yeah. Like like don't like I'm not going to try to get people to stay when they've just told me we feel like God's leading us somewhere else. Yes. I work for that guy. Right. All right. Let's just put it. Let's just put it in a different like like a different area. Let's just say like the CEO of the company who's very hands on. Very great guy. And I'm one of his managers. And the person comes and says, hey, the CEO just called me. They want me to go to this other department. What am I going to say? No. Yeah, no. No. Don't listen to the guy that owns everything. Nice. And is both of our boss. Right. But I think some people get upset. Like I've seen, like some people get upset when they tell me they're going to leave. And it's like, I don't react. Like, especially like, because a lot of times, whether God is leading them or not. Yeah. I think like people will throw that out there. But listen, if you're going to tell me that God's leading you somewhere else, I'm going to tell you to go. Because you just told me God told you to go. That's right. I may tell you, you know what? We love having you here, and we're sorry to see you go, but obviously if God's calling you somewhere else, He's calling you somewhere else, and He's got a reason for it. So the last thing I want you to do, if God is telling you to go, is to stay. Right. That's exactly right. And the same thing with myself. I'm here at the church I'm pastoring because I've, you know, wholeheartedly believe that this is where God called me to be the pastor. Now, I love it here. I love the people. And I could see me wrestling if God were to say, hey, oh, it's time to leave. I'm going to go with him. I'm going to be like, well, but God, you know, and I'm going to give him all the reasons why I don't want to leave. But at the end of the day, especially because I know him well enough to know that, like, he's not like, oh, okay, I changed my mind. no he's gonna be like oh no i told you this is this is where we go i'm gonna go okay well it's time to go through that practice i mean yeah abraham abraham and sarah packed everything they had they left yeah where are we going yeah and To the listener, if you know, either if it's, you know, if this is your season of life or if you know someone, chances are, chances are, you know, at least one person that is currently in the season of life of church hopping or church shopping. Like, let them know that wherever they land just simply needs to be God led. And that includes, and I'm like, dare I say this, that may even include a different denomination. Yeah, so I'm glad you said that, because let me speak up a little bit to those people, because maybe there's some people that are listening to our show or tuning into this episode, and they're babies in Christ. You froze, so I'm assuming I froze. No, you're fine. Yeah. Okay, so they're babies in Christ. They're a new believer. Let me give you a couple red flags to look for if you're going to a church. If you're going to a church and they are professing that they are the only godly place around, that's a good place to leave. As a matter of fact, be grateful that they said that because if they're that vocal about it, it's really easy. To make the decision, I'm not going back. If you're going to a place and they are getting angry when you are leaving, you're saying, hey, we feel like maybe God's leaving us somewhere else, and they get mad about it or try to convince you otherwise, that's a red flag. You should leave. If you are going to a place and they are manipulative, That's not the church. That's not what the church is supposed to look like. I'm not saying it's not a church, but it's not a healthy situation. And again, I don't think God's going to lead a young, immature believer or an old, immature believer, for that matter, into an unhealthy church situation where they're just going to get battered and scarred. Yeah, that's exactly right. But the size of the church is not. Relate to the health of the church. That's exactly correct. It's not directly proportional. There's huge churches that I think are, well, one, I think there's some that aren't even churches at all. They're clubs. Clubs. Yeah. There's some super small churches where they are just a great place to learn and grow. Yeah. But like for me, my heart, like as a pastor, like I want. the church at Murphy to get to the point where we're sending people out, right? Where we've got pastors and missionaries and teachers that are going out. And it's going to pain me when those people, when that family comes and they go, hey, you know, God's calling us away. I'm going to hurt, grieve a little bit for us, but I'm going to seek to lead the church to rejoice with them because God's calling them to mission somewhere else. You know, and God's going to, I think, too, sometimes he's going to call us to a church to build us up, to be ready to go out and be an agent of healing, be an agent of truth, be an agent of Barnabas -ness, of encouragement. You know, I think I told you just a little earlier when we were talking, there's a lady in my church that just randomly texted me today and said, hey, I'm praying for you. A little heart emoji. It's a wonderful lady in our church. And it's been a rough day. And I was like, thanks so much. It's been a rough day. I appreciate it. Pastors need that, too. But look for those things. If the church is being abusive. Whether it's, again, and a lot of times it's going to be emotionally manipulative and abusive. Those are good red flags that you need to get out of there. You need to get out of there. If the church is, yeah, just, I think those are things. Seek God to where you need to go. But God has given us wisdom. Now, that's not to say someone who, again, is spiritually mature, whom God may send into a situation like that. He may be sending you and your family into a place like that, again, because your armor was built for that. It's not going to destroy you. It doesn't mean it's going to be easy, but God's going to use you in that. So prayerfully is the biggest thing. But again, as a young believer, find someone, like if you've got these things that you think are red flags, Find someone that you know is spiritually mature, not just because their position, not because they're a pastor or Sunday school teacher, but you've seen the fruit of the Spirit in their life. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self -control. You've seen those things in their life and reach out to them. And of course, I hope you guys know out there that you can send us an email. Yeah, reach out to us. Absolutely. I am a pastor. I don't care to, I mean. Well, I have to be careful because some people would translate that differently. I am very willing to answer questions that you have, whether it be about church or the Bible or something you're struggling with. So I'm a pastor. That's kind of what I do, is to shepherd. And yes, God has put me as a shepherd, under shepherd, under him, to pastor First Baptist Murphy. But again, he tells me to be ready in season and out of season. So my ministry is wherever God has me. So feel free to send me those questions, and I will try to answer them as best I can. I will say, one of the things I try to tell my people at church, or anybody that emails me, please don't send me a question and expect me to email you back minutes later. Right. Yeah. An email and a text message are not the same thing. Yeah. Well, and even with the text message, like just because I got it, I mean, like if it's an emergency, hey, pastor, I need to know this right now. I'm facing this situation. I'm talking to somebody. Right. Versus, hey, I have a question. Like I'm probably not going to answer you. right away. Yeah. Because if you end up sending Brad an email saying, I thought about dialing , but did this instead, dial . Do I need to give that disclaimer? Like you give everywhere, any doctor's office. If this is an emergency, please hang up. Please hang up and dial . That's right. I am a doctor. I am not that kind of a doctor. That's right. All right, Brad, let's wrap this up, man. Listeners, there you go. That's part four. What did we say we were going to call it? Was it Looking for Churches ? Yeah. Looking for a Church ? There you go. Looking for a Church . Guys, listeners, thank you so much for hanging out with this show. , we are in it now. We are in the hundreds. And yeah, you know what to do. Menchurchstuff .com. All of our socials connect to our website now. So contact us. Get in touch with us. Hang out with us. What's the word I'm trying to find? Connect. Connect. Communicate. Communicate with us. Be a part of our camp. That's the word I'm looking for. Interact with us. Be a part of our circle of influence. That's right. But yeah. Come back next week, and we'll have another topic for you. But beyond that, Brad, I love you, buddy. Love you too, man. Listeners, we love you, and we will catch you next time. It'll be his church, wherever he leads you. Wherever he leads you, I'll go.